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Buy D7000 w FX lenses or go directly for D600?


tophee | Asked  8 months ago | Last response was 7 months ago

Hi there!

I've been on Pentax since I was 9 years old in the early 1980s and so I stuck with Pentax w/o even thinking when I went digital last year. I got the K-r and was somewhat disappointed: edial stopped working and there seems to be front focus problem that Pentax is aware of but unwilling to fix. But most of all, I came to realize that the vast majority of photographers is talking about Canon and Nikon, and nothing else. I've come to see the advantages too and decided I want to switch to Nikon.

So now I'm looking at the D7000 and the D600. I've read quite some discussions asking a similar question, but I'm still not sure whether the D600 is an overkill for me or not. So here are my thoughts and I'd be happy to hear your opinion and advice:

There's obviously a huge price difference between the two bodies, but I don't want to save money when I will end up moving to full frame anyway. The problem is, I don't know whether I will. I kind of sense that even if the D7000 would be a huge improvement comapred to my K-r, I will probably be curious what the next upgrad might bring. But perhaps that will only be in a couple of years? So I wonder if it would make sense to go for the D7000 but get FX lenses from the start so that I will not have to change those when I go full frame. What do you think? -- On the other side: buying those expensive lenses only makes sense if I know I will go full frame. But if I already know it, why not do it straight away? Everybody is all stoked with the D600, so for once, there seems to be a product where you cant do much wrong buying it. Not something you have everyday.

So one way to solve that dilemma might be to think about a certain sum of money that I want to spend now, and see whether a substantial amount should go into the D600 body or something else.

I haven't really been thinking so much about a sum of money as I am basically prepared to spend what it takes to get decent gear so that I will stop waisting my time surfing for those products that I could possibly maybe buy. I wanna focus on the photography and not worry about gear. But just to play along with the game I just suggested, let's say I'm ready to spend 4000, maybe 5000. It doesnt really matter whether you read that as US Dollars or Euros, since much of the equipment tends to cost the same in Euros as in Dollars (I will come back to that issue below).

So what do I need?

  • Tripod
  • Speedlight (SB-700), possibly a second one, but that can wait
  • Battery pack
  • wireless flash transmitter or at least a cable for off camera flash
  • camera bag/backpack
  • anything else?

Of theses items, the tripod is the big chunk of money. I haven't looked at any specific one yet, but it looks like I have to spend around 800 in order to be able to forget about tripods for w while. The other stuff might be another 800 or so, rather a bit below that. What do you think? As I said, I havent spent so much time on that yet.

An now for the lenses:

The D600, I would probably buy with the kit lens, I guess. But with the D7000, I'm not sure. That's part of my question here: should I buy an FX lens for the D7000?

Number two would probably be a 70-200 f2.8, but here I'm pretty sure that the Nikkor would be an overkill for me (as much as I would love to have it) so I was thinking about the Sigma, which also got great reviews (except in low light, which is a bit of a bummer, but the price difference is just so huge!).

Number three, I'm very curious to try both a very angle lens and a 50 mm prime lens, but I think one will have to wait, so I think the 50 mm will be my priority. f1.8 should do.

Let's stop here. Need to keep some goodies for later. So how much ist that?  Maybe 1700 for all three FX lenses?

So, I'm kinda starting to answer my own question by doing some maths: 1500 +1700 = 3200 excluding body. So there's basically just about room for the D7000. Unless I go up to 5000. But is it worth it? And if it isnt, why do I buy FX lenses?

So I guess, what I'm asking here is: does it make sense to go full frame if you're an amateur and always will stay one? No ambition whatsoever to earn money with this. In addition, I might say that I think I'm a tele guy (although yesterday I did a shot, where I would have liked a wider angle, so I guess it depends. But if you want to sort people into those who like to shot "the whole picture" and those obsessed with details, I'm in the latter category. Jay Maisel said that something like wide angle gives him responsibility for to much real estate to take care of, so he prefers tele.Same with me. So I'm thinking I might be happier with DX altogether, where that 70-200 becomes a 105-350! I'm kinda worried that I will experience the 70-200 as a drawback compared to the 18-350 I currently use. But then again, Jay Maisel also said something like "Your feet are your best tele zoom".

 

So anyway, the last thing I wanted to throw in to complicate things a bit further has to do with the so much cheaper prices in North America (than in Europe). I am probably going to spend two years in Canada from 2014 and I though that might be a good opportunity to stock up on gear (you don't have to pay tax or duty when you actually lived in overseas and then move back to Europe!) So that might be a reason to wait and buy the D600 and perhaps even the FX lenses then. But what do I do with the DX ones that I would buy in the meantime?

Okay, I'll stop here and I'm very curious to hear your advice.

 

Christoph

P.S. It is allowed to write an answer that is actually shorter than the question ;-)

Which camera do you recommend for tophee?

Nikon D7000 - $897
16.1 MP|APS-C CMOS|3" LCD
Nikon D600 - $1,997
24.2 MP|Full frame CMOS|3.2" LCD
8 Answers
  1. Expert III
    Canon EOS 5D Mark II
    Ambassador
    Score
    8 months ago Philip-Davis recommends the Canon EOS 5D Mark II

    Save some money, get the Canon 5D Mark II.  It's coming way down in price now that new full-frame cameras are coming out.

    1. Beginner I
      8 months ago AdamSheikh
      Great camera, but the ISO/noise performance is lacking compared to these newer cameras.
    2. Visitor
      8 months ago tophee
      Thanks for that. In fact, the ability to photograph with higher ISO than you could even imagine on film is one of the things that fascinates me about digital photography and it seems to be also one of the big plusses for the D600 (or any FX sesnor, for that matter)
    Reply
  2. Expert I
    cameras Community
    Fair Minded
    Score
    8 months ago Brenden-Sherratt recommends the Pentax K-5 II

    Perhaps before you jump ship you should take a look at the Pentax K-5 II, it comes out this month and would be much cheaper than buying a whole new system.

    1. Visitor
      8 months ago tophee
      Apart from the change of system argument, what reasons are there to shot on Pentax?
    2. Expert I
      8 months ago Brenden-Sherratt
      I am not a Pentax shooter, so I am not going to try to sway you, but I guess I was just trying to save you money by sticking with the lenses you already have.
    Reply
  3. Expert I
    cameras Community
    Fair Minded
    Score
    8 months ago Brenden-Sherratt recommends the Pentax K-01

    Perhaps a Mirrorless camera might be the best option? I do not think that there are any DSLR killers in the current batch of cameras, but I do think they are just around the corner. Many people have started to say that Mirrorless cameras will replace DSLR, so perhaps you might want to keep your Pentax K-r, for a bit longer and wait to see what hits the market at CES next year.

    1. Visitor
      8 months ago tophee
      Thanks for pointing that out, but I don't see the point with mirrorless cameras.
    2. Intermediate I
      8 months ago Peter-Berardi
      The mirrorless thaet have been coming out are top notch. Some have APS-C sized sensors and have specs that nearly match much more expensive DSLRs. Also, lenses, flashes and other accessories are much cheaper, you could get an awesome mirrorless kit for the price of an expensive DSLR body. That's the point of the mirrorless.
    Reply
  4. Intermediate I
    Nikon D600
    Supporter
    Score
    8 months ago Peter-Berardi recommends the Nikon D600

    If your planning on waiting until your in Canada to get the body cheaper then maybe you should pick up D600 or maybe a used D800 when you get there.

    The specs are some of the best out there and since you are wondering about having DX lenses already the D800 and D600 have a DX mode that will utilize the lenses you already have and give you great quality, the D800's will be slightly larger and some of the other specs are better. By then you may be able to find a used D800 for less than a new D600.

    Reply
  5. Beginner I
    Score
    8 months ago AdamSheikh recommends the Nikon D7000

    Get the D7000.  Its a truly stunning piece of kit and performs extremely well all around.  It can more than keep up with cameras that are outside of its class.  Of course, FX lenses are amazing, but don't write off the DX options either.  Some DX are quite cheap and are surprisingly good for the money (35mm 1.8, 50mm 1.8/1.4, etc.).  Unless you absolutely need full frame, the D7K will be an excellent choice.  I bought mine right when it came out and it has consistently pleased me in many photographic situations.  

    1. Visitor
      8 months ago tophee
      In what way are FX lenses amazing and are they amazing also on DX bodies?
    2. Intermediate II
      7 months ago heuscher
      A DX camera only uses the centre of an FX lens - the best performance of a lens is in the centre - in that sense they perform 'better' on DX bodies. I have a D7000 and glued to it is a 24-70mm nikon FX lens. I had a DX lens, a 'super zoom' 18-200mm that I haven't used since. Quality optics make a huge difference. I use a 50mm f/1.8 too. The downside of the D7k is poor high ISO compared to the D600/800/FX and also DOF - for same composition DX will have greater DOF. I would recommend going FX and as someone mentioned, look at the 5D Mk2. Consider buying second hand lenses too from someone locally to you so you can examine them first - that can potentially save a lot of money. But overall I would say having top quality lenses on a DX will give you better satisfaction and images than having an FX with cheaper lenses .g. a D7000 with a 24-70mm v D600 with a 28-300 FX superzoom. Those combos cost roughly the same.ish.
    3. Visitor
      7 months ago tophee
      Thanks for the comments. I also found a video on youtube that compares the dynamic range of a canon 7D with the D600 (watch at www.youtube.com Assuming that the D7000 would perform similar to the 7D, I found that quite a confincing argument for FX. The next question I am now thinking about is whether I should take the D600 kit-lens plus the 70-200 2.8 (Sigma) or rather the 28-300 (Nikkor) as a convenient universal lens and wait with 2.8 lenses until I know which one will suit my need best. My reasoning is that its good to have a universal lens anyway (travel and street photography) so why not start with it. What do you think?
    4. Intermediate II
      7 months ago heuscher
      I'm not sure you can take the results of that test shown in the video and apply them to all camera's with the respective similar sensor size. 7D's DR is 11.7EV, D7000 13.9EV and D600 14.2EV according to quick check I did. That would suggest the D7000 is closer to the D600 on that quality. If you like a universal lens then 28-300 seems great, and whilst my experience was with the 18-200 which from what I've seen is not as good optically, I realised I was mainly shooting at the extremes and only because I had them. Seeing what focal lengths I was using didn't help me work out what lenses I should get. In the end I brought a 24-70mm f/2.8 Nikon lens that is so good optically, the images from the 18-200mm are now so substandard to my expectations that I'm close to giving it away as I never use it AND in the first 2 months of travel (when I was using it) it didn't hold up well and is now looking like it's 10 years old. Worthless piece of plastic - wasted my money. I'm travelling long term and don't mind the load. I'd rather spend $4k on two lenses, each with limited focal range, and have 'pro' (top end) glass and build that is sealed and survivable than $1k lens with mediocre slow optics and results that will die and need replacing. All about preferences and what your cost-benefit profile is between convenience v quality with your given budget. I am heavily sided to the latter - and for that reason too don't use third party lenses unless there's no Nikon version (Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 as an example. And I'm talking AF lenses only). The Nikon 70-200 is phenomenal, I would save if you don't have the money as the Sigma is unlikely to come close and the D600 will be demanding at 24MP. I use a 180mm f/2.8 Nikon prime though as it's got great optics, solid build, fast and critically not 1.5kg... it's light weight 0.8kg. :D With those two lens combos I would go 28-300 any day before a kit + sigma tele zoom. You might want to add a 50mm f/1.8G to your lens arsenal. Very cheap and will be the best one optically. It's a hard decision, what I wish I had done... saved $1k and skipped the superzoom and spent $800 more on a 24-70mm solid and phenomenal lens. Any shortfall in tele end is part of the joy of photography if you've only got one lens with you... a lack of gear helps you become more imaginative and create more interesting images.
    5. Visitor
      7 months ago tophee
      Thanks for sharing your experience. I find them very interesting to read. - Yes, I will devinitely get the 50mm f1.8G. I didn't mention it because that was already clear. I've been swaying a bit between the 24-70 and the 28-300 since the 28-300 is obviously much slower. But then I read that people like Jay Maisel not only endorse but use this lens on a daily basis (just look at the picture on ). at www.jaymaisel.com And Scott Kelby takes this lens as his only lens on his travel (India, Greece,...), and he seems to turn whichever trip into a photobook. So I thought: obviously, there is a trade off, but the 28-300 just fits my needs perfectly right now: five weeks of traveling ahead during which I hope to get a better idea of what might be the best fast lens for me to get. I suspect I will end up with the 24-70. But I really need to think that through, considering its price tag.
    6. Intermediate II
      7 months ago heuscher
      I think the lens can get good results, it is slow, certainly on the long end and requires stopping down further to get optimal performance. If you are going to and able to treat your lenses with a lot of care, then I think it's a great option to go for, particularly paired with the 50 which covers you for low light. Can't go wrong with that.
    Reply
  6. Beginner I
    Score
    7 months ago justin-oughton recommends the Nikon D600

    I would suggest the D7000 if you are doing predominantly wildlife and macro and need the extra "magnification", vs the D600 if you are doing portraits and landscape.  

    Though the DX lenses are cheaper and quality is reasonable, I would only get FX lenses, as the reality is that in 5 years time you will probably be owning an FX camera of some sort or you will have given up the hobby.  The benefits of an Fx sensor in terms of image noise will always be superior to Dx sensors as the technology is the same - ie as Dx sensors improve, so do Fx. But the other important consideration is size and weight - how much are you prepared to carry - you should get to a camera store and try out the size and weight of the different bodies with a few different lenses on. 

    I currently have a D7000 and think it is fantastic, but will upgrade to the d600 in about 6 months time when prices come down.  This is because, for wildlife photography in rainforest, you need all the sensitivity you can get.  

    As for lenses, think of it as a collection.  avoid the cheaper zooms and pick lenses based on application.  I have had Nikons for 20 years now and still use the old (Fx) prime lenses from film days.  The Dx lenses I got with my D70 are either broken or gather dust due to poor image quality.  I would save your pennies and get the best lenses you can either new or 2nd hand but in excellent condition. Start with the application you use most.  My favs that you can easily buy are: 14-24mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4 AFS, 85mm 1.4 AFS, 105mm VR 2.8 macro, and 300mm f4 AFS.  I have got most of these lenses grey market without any problems and saved a few dollars that way.  The absence of the 80-200 mm and 24-70mm 2.8s is intentional - I find that using fixed range (prime) lenses makes me think a little more about the photo composition, but others find that annoying or too time consuming.  The ultra wide and macro are must haves for travelling in my book.

    Now after saying all that you have to remember that it is the composition, light, colour and textures that make a good photo, not the camera.  I have been out done many a time by friends with good compacts.     

    Reply
  7. Beginner I
    Score
    8 months ago Keith-Gaule recommends the Nikon D600

    May as well go FX from the off! SHop around, the D600 can be got for a lot less than $2000

    1. Visitor
      7 months ago tophee
      Not in Europe anyway!
    2. Visitor
      7 months ago Karl-Merchant
      Where are you finding it for less than $2000?
    Reply
  8. Beginner II
    -3
    Score
    8 months ago geoge recommends the Sony SLT-A99

    If it has to be full-frame... The choice is one and only nowadays :))

    Reply